Last updated November 2024 | Words and photos by Vietnam Coracle
Tom Divers is the founder and creator of Vietnam Coracle. He’s lived, travelled and worked in Vietnam since 2005. Born in London, he travelled from an early age, visiting over 40 countries (he first visited Vietnam in 1999). Now, whenever he has the opportunity to make a trip, he rarely looks beyond Vietnam’s borders and his trusty motorbike, Stavros. Read more about Tom on the About Page, Vietnam Times and ASE Podcast.
Just a few hours southwest of Hanoi is a landscape of soaring limestone mountains cloaked in bamboo forests and bisected by blue streams. The region’s most important geological feature is the mighty Mã River, a viscous, velvety body of water snaking through the karst mountains all the way from Laos. Quiet roads meander along steep valleys and mountain passes twist skyward towards remote Lao border crossings forming a network of spectacular riding roads. Straddling both Thanh Hóa and Hòa Bình provinces, the Limestone Loops consist of four separate, stand-alone motorbike loops, each of which can be ridden in one day on the road. Base yourself in Pù Luông or Mai Châu for a few nights and ride one loop each day and you’re guaranteed to fall head over heels for this region.
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LIMESTONE LOOPS
4 Loops through Karst Scenery near the Vietnam-Laos Border
In this guide, I’ve outlined 4 different loops, all starting/ending at Bản Đôn village, at the heart of Pù Luông Nature Reserve. Each loop is designed to be ridden separately in one full day on the road. Base yourself at one of the many excellent accommodation options in Pù Luông (or Mai Châu, if you prefer) and ride one loop each day over the course of several days. (Or, if you want, you can combine all 4 loops to create one big loop, staying at various places along the way.) I have made separate maps for each of the 4 loops, as well as a map outlining route options between Hanoi and Pù Luông. The best time of year is March-May and September-October. Click an item below for details and maps. If you enjoy this guide, please make a donation or consider purchasing the Offline Guide & Map package.
CONTENTS:
ROUTE 1: Spice Hills Loop
ROUTE 2: Cascades Loop
ROUTE 3: Lao Loop (south)
ROUTE 4: Lao Loop (north)
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ROUTE MAP:
Limestone Loops | 4 Motorbike Routes
MAP LEGEND:
- Blue line: Spice Hills Loop
- Red line: Cascades Loop
- Purple line: Lao Loop (south)
- Orange line: Lao Loop (north)
*Road Safety & Disclaimer: Riding a motorbike in Vietnam – or anywhere in the world – has its dangers. I would hope & expect anyone who chooses to pursue a self-drive road trip based on the information on this website does so with care, respect & due diligence. I encourage careful riding & adherence to road rules, but I am not responsible for the legality or manner in which you ride, nor any negative consequences which may result from your decision to ride a motorbike in Vietnam: you do so at your own risk. Read more >
About the Loops:
Below is a brief at-a-glance overview of the Limestone Loops, followed by more specific details about important considerations, such as start/end points, accommodation, road conditions, traffic, food and drink, weather, connecting routes and more:
QUICK DETAILS:
- Route: 4 loops through limestone karst scenery around the Mã River valley, Pù Luông Nature Reserve & the Lao border
- Distance: 805km (all 4 loops combined)
- Duration: 4-6 days
- Scenery: limestone karst mountains, bamboo forests, rivers, caves, jungles, valleys, borderlands
- Attractions: caves, waterfalls, river swimming, villages, historic sites, bamboo waterwheels, scenic passes
- Road Conditions: good paved roads & narrow back-roads, light traffic, some rough patches
- Best Time: March-May, September-October
Getting to/from Hanoi: Although some riders will connect to the Limestone Loops from elsewhere, most people will likely be coming from Hanoi. I have written a separate section about this, including a route map: see below for details.
Start & End: Each of the 4 loops in this guide start and end at Bản Đôn village, located at the centre of Pù Luông Nature Reserve, where there are lots of great accommodation options (see my guide to Pù Luông Nature Reserve for details). The loops are designed to be ridden one by one, starting and ending each day from your base in Pù Luông. Personally, I can’t think of a better way to enjoy these motorbike loops than to begin each day with breakfast overlooking the rice terraces of Pù Luông, followed by several hours on the road exploring the loops, and arriving back in Pù Luông for a delicious local dinner (and perhaps a cocktail) watching the the sun set behind the limestone mountains. However, if you prefer, you can easily shift the daily start/end point of each loop to nearby Mai Châu (a lovely valley where there’s lots of good accommodation), or even tackle all 4 loops in one, staying at a different place each night. It’s up to you, but my recommendation is to find a good place to stay in Pù Luông and start/end each day and each loop there over the course of 4-7 days. This is a wonderful way to experience the region.
Using the Maps: This guide includes 6 separate maps: x1 showing all 4 Limestone Loops; x1 showing route options to/from Hanoi; and x1 map for each of the 4 individual loop: Spice Hills Loop, Cascades Loop, Lao Loop (south), Lao Loop (north). If you purchase the Offline Guide & Map you will receive pre-downloaded KMZ files for all 6 maps. If not, you can find all 6 maps imbedded in the relevant sections of the guide on this page.
Distances: The combined distance of all 4 loops is 805km, but the average distance of each individual loop is around 200km. See each loop for exact distances, maps and details.
Duration: I recommend riding one loop per day. As there are 4 loops, this would mean spending 4 days to complete all the Limestone Loops. However, you could easily spend up to 7 days riding the loops, especially if you choose to take some of the optional side routes and detours on my maps. Riders in a rush could complete the loops in as little as 2-3 days by combining some of the loops: for example, the two Lao Loops could be condensed into one Lao Loop. Bear in mind that the roads are winding and mountainous, making average speed relatively slow, and the scenery is so good that you will want to stop regularly to enjoy it. It is best to plan to spend a full day riding each loop.
Connecting Routes: The Limestone Loops link seamlessly with other excellent routes in the region, offering riders the chance to extend their road trip. These include, the Lam Sơn Loop, the Mường Lống Loop and the Ghost Road, as well as connecting to the Ho Chi Minh Road to the east.
Traffic & Road Conditions: There’s only light traffic on all of the loops: in some cases, there are hardly any other vehicles whatsoever. However, trucks do ply the roads leading to the Lao border as trade between the two neighbouring communist nations is booming. Most of the roads – even the smaller back roads – are in pretty good condition: all paved, all rideable on any kind of motorbike. At the time of latest update, there were a few bumpy sections here and there, but nothing much to worry about, unless there’s been very heavy rainfall, in which case road conditions could deteriorate.
Gas Stations: There are gas stations at fairly regular intervals on all of the loops. However, some regions, especially the western areas towards the border with Laos, are quite sparsely populated and places to fill up are few. If riding one loop per day, most motorbikes will need to stop for gas once on each loop (assuming you start the day will a full tank). Most villages and towns marked on my maps with a red pin will have at least one gas station. But don’t let your fuel gauge get too low before looking to fill up.
Weather & Time of Year: Although it’s possible to ride the Limestone Loops at any time of year, the best time for weather conditions and scenery is spring (March-May) or early autumn (September-October). During the high summer months (June-August) it can be very hot with some heavy rainfall. In the winter (January-February) it can be surprisingly cold and grey, especially on the high mountain passes..
Accommodation: I highly recommend choosing an accommodation in Pù Luông or Mai Châu and using it as a base from which to ride the loops in this guide. Both Pù Luông and Mai Châu have lots of excellent places to stay in all price ranges. Find an accommodation that suits you and use that as your hub from which to explore the wider region by riding one loop per day. If not, there are a handful of local guest houses (nhà nghỉ) in most villages on the loops, as well as some homestays scattered here and there, such as Thác Mu and Thác Mây on the Cascades Loop. Note that at the time of research, foreign travellers were not allowed to stay overnight in the town of Mường Lát, on the Lao Loop (North)
Food & Drink: Assuming that most riders will base themselves in Pù Luông or Mai Châu, the only meal you’ll be having on the road is lunch, and perhaps a snack or two. Most villages and towns on the loops have local cơm-phở (rice-noodle) eateries. If you want a proper meal, you’ll need to stop at the right time of day: lunch usually starts around 11am and is over by 1pm. Drinks and snacks are available at regular intervals from local stores. For breakfast and dinner, both Pù Luông and Mai Châu have lots of excellent places to dine.
Getting from/to Hanoi:
If you want to start the road trip from Hanoi (rather than renting a motorbike in Pù Luông or Mai Châu), there are several potential routes to take from the capital. Although both Pù Luông and Mai Châu are less than 200km southwest of Hanoi, the ride can take between 4-6 hours, depending on weather, traffic, road conditions and which route you choose to take. Personally, I don’t really enjoy the ride from Hanoi, especially the first hour or two, which involves negotiating the capital’s clogged streets and then the truck-strewn industrial suburbs. However, this miserable urban sprawl serves are a remarkable juxtaposition to the beautiful natural setting of Pù Luông and Mai Châu. On my map below, I’ve marked two possible routes from Hanoi: main roads (blue line) and back-roads (red line). Both routes are the same distance at 195km. The main roads route is easier to navigate and the roads are bigger and wider, but there’s more traffic. The back-roads route utilizes quieter roads, passing more appealing scenery, going more off the beaten path, but there are still a couple of unpleasant sections and the possibility of minor road deterioration. Another option is to combine the two routes using various link roads. Personally, if the weather is good and time isn’t an issue, I would choose the back-roads route; if the weather is grim and all you want to do is get the ride over with, I would choose the main roads route. (For information about how to get from Hanoi to Pù Luông by bus, see my Pù Luông Nature Reserve Travel Guide.)
ROUTE MAP: Hanoi to/from Pù Luông (Bản Đôn village)
- Blue Route: main roads | 195km
- Red Route: back-roads | 195km
Route 1: Spice Hills Loop
QUICK DETAILS:
- Route: Pù Luông→Lũng Vân→Pù Bin→Mai Châu→Cun Pheo→Co Lương→Pù Luông
- Distance: 155km
- Duration: half or full day
- Road Conditions: good back roads, a few rough patches
- Scenery: valleys, rice fields, misty mountains, high passes, limestone peaks, villages
- Attractions: caves, villages, views, wonderful scenery, back roads, good riding
ROUTE MAP: Spice Hills Loop | 155km
Description: The Spice Hills Loop can be ridden in either direction, but I prefer to go anti-clockwise on the loop. Heading south from Bản Đôn village and enjoying the views from the road across the misty valleys of Pù Luông Nature Reserve, the route sweeps northwards from the Làng Tôm intersection and on through Phố Đoàn village where the market is worth a stop if it’s early morning. Veering eastward, the road ascends an incredibly steep pass zigzagging up a sheer wall of limestone, affording panoramic views of the valley from each hairpin. Perched on a bend, a săn mây (‘cloud hunting’) cafe is a favourte spot for photographers to come in the early mornings when a mist lingers in the valley. The pass summits and cuts through a valley of limestone peaks before cruising across the Lũng Vân plateau. Turning due northwest at Lũng Vân village, the back road to Pù Bin and Noong Luông winds high above a deep, steep valley checked with soy, rice and spice fields. Even in the summer, there can be a chill in air up here. The last 10km before hitting the Thung Khe pass at Highway QL6 is a barren but beautiful landscape of rugged limestone pillars, reminiscent of Hà Giang.
Take the wide and weaving Thung Khe pass down to its base and turn due south on QL15 across a lush valley to Mai Châu village, where you can stop for some lunch, a coffee and pop into to the Thái Museum to learn about the Thái ethnolinguistic group that make up the majority of the population in this region. Head west from Mai Châu on a back road that goes from rice paddies in the valley to rainforests in the mountains within just a few kilometres. This is a great little road with no traffic and fabulous scenery. However, there are one of two patches of bumpy road surface and possibly some slippery mud if there’s been a lot of rain. Take it slow and continue all the way west to the remote little hamlet of Cun Pheo before swinging back around on a parallel road (again with some rough patches) back to QL15. Follow the muddy waters of the Mã River for a short while before turning due southeast onto QL15C, a spectacular road leading into the mountains and jungles of Pù Luông Nature Reserve. If you have time, take a detour to Kho Mương hamlet and visit Hang Dơi (Bat Cave), before returning to Bản Đôn village, thus completing the Spice Hills Loop.
IMAGES | Route 1: Spice Hills Loop
Route 2: Cascades Loop
QUICK DETAILS:
- Route: Pù Luông→Mường Khến→Cẩm Thủy→Ngọc Lặc→Cành Nàng→Pù Luông (+side routes)
- Distance: 196km (basic loop)
- Duration: full day
- Road Conditions: good paved back roads, wide highways, some rough patches
- Scenery: limestone mountains, lush valleys, waterfalls, rivers, villages, bamboo forests
- Attractions: waterfalls, river swimming, historic sites, homestay villages, passes
ROUTE MAP: Cascades Loop | 196km
Description: A full day on the road, with lots of optional detours and alternative routes, the Cascades Loop requires you to leave early in the morning if you want to complete the route in a day. Otherwise, you can consider an overnight stop on the loop: there are some good homestays around both Thác Mu and Thác Mây waterfalls, as well as local guest houses at most of the towns on the loop. The total distance is just under 200km, but if you want to add any of the side routes to waterfalls and sites (which you definitely should), then the loop with be approximately 250-300km. Make sure you plan accordingly. This route uses a combination of small back roads (mostly in good condition) and larger national highways, including a good section of the Ho Chi Minh Road. In addition to the optional side routes (marked in red on my map), there are many other potential roads to explore in this region. The more time you have, the better. You can ride the loop in either direction, but I prefer to go clockwise on the loop.
After leaving Pù Luông early in the morning, take the side route to Bản Hiêu waterfall, set amidst pretty scenery in a lovely valley. Back on the main loop, head north via the steep pass to Lũng Vân and then continue due north on a scenic (but a bit bumpy) mountain road leading over the limestone karsts, out of Pù Luông Nature Reserve, and descending to the agricultural plains where it joins Highway QL6 for a brief stint to the crossroads town of Mường Khến (Tân Lạc). Join QL12B for a smooth ride due southeast through a verdant valley filled with rice paddies all the way to the intersection with the Ho Chi Minh Road at Lạc Sơn. However, if you have time, definitely take the detour due south from road QL12B to visit Thác Mu waterfall, where there’s also a smattering of good accommodation for a night. Stay on the Ho Chi Minh Road heading due south all the way to Ngọc Lặc. The first section (from Lạc Sơn to Cẩm Thủy) is particularly good riding and scenery, flanked to the east by the old-growth forests of Cúc Phương National Park. A side route due west leads to Thác Mây waterfall, where there’s good river swimming and some homestay options. Another potential side route leads southeast from Cẩm Thủy to the 15th century ruins of Hồ Citadel. At Ngọc Lặc, turn due west on QL15 towards the village of Lang Chánh, where there’s another optional side route to Thác Ma Hào waterfall. North of Lang Chánh, the road hits the banks of the Mã River to Cành Nàng and back to Pù Luông.
IMAGES | Route 2: Cascades Loop
Route 3: Lao Loop (south)
QUICK DETAILS:
- Route: Pù Luông→Đồng Tâm→Quan Sơn→Na Mèo→Bo Cúng Cave→Quan Hóa→Pù Luông
- Distance: 205km
- Duration: full day
- Road Conditions: good, paved roads, very light traffic
- Scenery: bamboo forests, wide rivers, jungle-covered mountains, caves, valleys, villages
- Attractions: caves, border crossings, bamboo water wheels, waterfalls, river swimming, villages
ROUTE MAP: Lao Loop (south) | 205km
Description: A full day on the road, this highly scenic loop stretches west to the remote border with Lao via excellent roads and wonderful scenery. In addition to my loop, there are some back roads to explore, if you have the time. You can ride the loop is either direction, but I prefer to go clockwise on the loop. Ride south out of Pù Luông and across the wide arm of the Mã River, shadowing its southern banks for a while, through the crossroads village of Đồng Tâm to the intersection with QL217, and head west. The road immediately climbs high into the mountains before dropping into a lush valley and weaving a path along the banks of a river. Look out for a series of large bamboo water wheels on the riverbank at Trung Tiến hamlet. The town of Quan Sơn clings to the valley, offering a good lunch stop (there’s also accommodation if you need it). Continuing west, you enter the borderlands: traffic is very light, save for some trucks plying between Lao and Vietnam. If you have time, ride all the way west to the Na Mèo border crossing, which includes a good mountain pass. Otherwise, turn due north on a beautiful back road to Bo Cúng cave.
Situated in a valley surrounded by limestone karsts, Bo Cúng cave is isolated but in a very pretty spot and definitely worth a visit. A side lane leads down to the cave. Find the guard with the keys and ask to explore the cave. The entrance is diminutive but opens into a long series of chambers full of stalactites and stalagmites. The eerie beauty is enhanced by atmospheric lighting. Back at the cave entrance, take a quick swim in the river before getting back on the loop and continuing due north going up and down a spectacular pass and joining DT520. This smooth road runs alongside a verdant agricultural valley, past little hamlets and across the Mã River to Quan Hóa (Hồi Xuân). Before crossing the Mã, take a look at Hang Ma cave, where the chocolatey river water has carved out an overhang in the limestone karst that looms above. Quan Hóa town has some shops and local guest houses if you need them. If not, head due south on QL16, hugging the Mã River and then retracing the route back to Pù Luông.
IMAGES | Route 3: Lao Loop (south)
Route 4: Lao Loop (north)
QUICK DETAILS:
- Route: Pù Luông→Co Lương→Mường Lát→Tén Tằn border crossing→Quan Hóa→Pù Luông
- Distance: 248km
- Duration: full day
- Road Conditions: very good, some bumpy stretches, light traffic
- Scenery: rivers, lakes, mountains, borderlands, caves, jungles, valleys
- Attractions: hydroelectric dams, river swimming, waterfalls, borders, villages, passes, great riding
ROUTE MAP: Lao Loop (north) | 248km
Description: This long and wide loop spreads west to the remote Lao border and requires a full day on the road. I prefer to ride it anti-clockwise on the loop, but either way is fine. Head due northwest from Pù Luông on QL15C, taking in the vistas across terraced rice fields and limestone peaks, to the intersection at Co Lương. Turn due west on Q16 following the Mã River whose flow is tempered by several huge hydroelectric dams, the last of which creates a placid lake that fills the valley. Road conditions get a bit bumpy for the second half of the route to Mường Lát. If it gets too uncomfortable, you can always use the QL16 cut through route to DT520 (marked in red on my map). The town of Mường Lát is an outpost on the Mã River; the last significant settlement before the Lao border. It’s a strange place, but there’s food, drink and some accommodation. However, at the time of writing, foreign travellers were not allowed to overnight here.
Turning due south from Mường Lát and then looping east on DT520, the road soars into the clouds on a long and winding pass known as Cổng Trời Mường Lát (Heaven’s Gate Pass). This excellent road leads across the mountains and through the valleys all the way to Quan Hóa (Hồi Xuân) on the Mã River. From here, turn north on QL15 and follow the river back to the Co Lương intersection and retrace the route back to Pù Luông, thus completing the loop.
IMAGES | Route 4: Lao Loop (north)
*Disclosure: I never receive payment for anything I write: my content is always free and independent. I’ve written this guide because I want to: I like these routes and I want my readers to know about them. For more details, see my Disclosure & Disclaimer statements and my About Page
Hi! I am planning my trip to vietnam on february, 12 days. My original plan was to to do the loop from hanoi to the north.
But as I read that the weather is not good I just wandered if its better to do this trip and then go south to da nang and take a flight from there. So I wont be so many time on the northern part of the country
I imagine that as north you go the weather may be colder, is it like that?
I can do some change to my trip and go on early march, should it be better or the same?
Thank you for your answer
Ary
Hi Ary,
Yes, the weather is best in the south at that time of year. I suggest you take a look at my Weather Guide and start to plan your itinerary based on that.
Best,
Tom
Just finished riding this loop, one of my favorites along with the Muong Long loop! DT423A/B, the road you have marked as “extremely bad,” is now freshly paved. I much preferred it over the heavily trafficked and touristed QL15C.
Hi Silver,
Thank you for this valuable and helpful update. I hope to get up there and ride it again this summer. I’m happy to hear you enjoyed this loop and the Muong Long Loop.
Best,
Tom
I guess you mean DT432A/B.
On the DT432A there is one position marker saying: “extremely bad road (1km)” which to me means that around that location there is a kilometer of bad road, not speaking of the rest of the DT432A’s condition, let alone the DT432B, which both in general can be assumed of normal condition as there are not any more markers.
Hi Michiel,
I have recently ridden DT432A and DT432B, and they are now is good condition – sometimes a single land paved road, sometimes a two-lane tarmac road. I will be writing and mapping a completely new version of the Limestone Loop over the next few weeks.
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,
That’s great to hear!
We also just rode both of them, today, and that mysterious 1km is now perfectly paved, as well as the majority of the DT 432A. DT432B however had some roughness to it, but nothing too bad. More fun on a dirt bike, but our “fake Honda Win” did it too, with some walking speed sections;-)
Greetings from the Nhan Ghi at Co Luong intersection, which is indeed a bit depressing, however the roads around here are very ok now;-) .There must have been a lot of improvement over the past few years!
Michiel
Hi Michiel,
Yep, practically all the roads on the Limestone Loop are you is good condition 🙂
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thanks for all the detailed info, and route maps. I’ll be driving from Hanoi to Mai Chau this coming weekend, and had a question regarding the Section 1 route, not sure if your map is still current?
I read somewhere that the road from Hoa Lac – Hoa Binh is fairly new and in good condition. Google maps also suggests using this road. So my question is, which do you think is better, continue west from Hoa Lac to Hoa Binh? Or from Hoa Lac via Xuan Mai and ATK road as per your route? I assume your route might be more scenic, but I’m happy with a shorter smoother ride even if it means missing out on some scenery. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Matt
Hi Matt,
You’d need to check first if the direct route to Hoa Binh allows motorbikes – it is a CT road which is an expressway; some of those roads don’t allow two-wheel vehicles. Then, if your main concern is getting to Mai Chau on the most direct route with the smoothest roads, the Hoa Binh route makes sense. But if you prefer smaller roads, less traffic and scenery, then the ATK route is probably better.
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thanks for this article, and your whole website. Super helpful that you put these out.
In your opinion, do you think this could be done on a 50cc?
Cheers,
George.
Hi George,
Technically, if the 50cc bike is in good condition, yes. However, it wouldn’t be much fun on a 50cc – noisy and slow up the steep roads. Much better to ride it on 100cc+.
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom, just wanted to update the situation in Muong Lat. The Limestone Loop itself was an amazing ride, one of my favorites as far as natural beauty and getting off the beaten track, especially QL15C. I unfortunately put my ride together last minute and didn’t read the comments section beforehand. I arrived in Muong Lat early afternoon after a particularly long and hot ride from Hanoi to Canh Nang the day before in a tank top leaving me burnt to a crisp so was looking for a spot to relax for a night and give my sun wrecked skin a break. I checked into the hotel, unpacked, and went to the general store for some snacks. Upon returning I was met with police/border agents who advised me it was illegal to be there without a special permit. They interviewed me for about an hour and a half, very polite but also very specific and probing questions into my entire life and background. After speaking with them for a while they told me I could rest for a while but I would have to leave. As I was losing daylight chatting with the officials I told them I would leave because I now had to make it to the next town before sundown. They followed me out of town and had checkpoint officials along the northern river road marking my location. Its a shame because I was more concerned about making it to Mai Chau before dark and couldn’t fully enjoy the beauty of the northern river road. None the less, a great ride and dont believe there would be any problems driving through, just not stopping for the night, so plan accordingly for that section as there arent many options until getting closer to Mai Chau. Highly recommended ride, just prepare for doing the whole section of that loop without an overnight break.
Hi Joe,
Thank you for the update and for sharing your experience in Muong Lat: it will be very helpful to other riders too. I’m sorry to hear about that, but at least the authorities were polite and you made it to alternative accommodation for the night. Unfortunately, it does seem that overnighting in Muong Lat is out of the question for now; but, as you say, riding through shouldn’t be an issue, so riders can still enjoy this route.
Best,
Tom
Did the loop as part of a tet ride. Didn’t try and stay overnight, so no information there.
Otherwise, road from Mai Chau South East down towards Laos then back up to Pu Luong is in great condition, all brand new tarmac and concrete. An excellent days ride. Pretty empty, only passed a handful of cars and lorries.
Had a nice sunny dry day for it, but up there with Ha Giang and Phuong Nga in terms of beauty.
Highly recommended, easy roads to ride, food and coffee places along the route.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the updates on road conditions – it’s very useful to me and other riders.
Best,
Tom
Peter, i suspect when you say Phuong Nga you mean Phong Nha, the tourist town with the caves etc?
Hi there i am just wanting to know what the cost would be to do the 5 sections per person.
Regards Andrew
Hi Andrew,
Sorry, I don’t do tours. I write these guides so that people can do it themselves 🙂
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thank you for putting together such an amazing resource. The road North between Lang Long and Lang Son is in really bad condition on the switchback section up the mountain. The concrete there is mostly potholed gravel now, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone inexperienced or two up on a scooter. Coming North to South downhill would be dangerous. I was riding solo on my XR150, and even then was skidding everywhere. On the plus side the roads from there to Pu Bin and down to Mai Chau again were gorgeous, good condition and empty.
Going to take the Laos loop over Tet in hopefully one day, will update if there’s any change from what you’ve described so brilliantly. Thanks again!
Hi Peter,
Thank you for your trip report and valuable road updates, I really appreciate, and I’m sure other readers do, too.
For the Laos loop, check the comments below, because people have had issues around the borders post-Covid, especially with overnighting in Muong Lat.
Best,
Tom
Hey Tom,
Thanks for keeping this site up and running, we all really appreciate it! I’m living in Thanh Hoa city now, so I’m wanting to tackle this loop but coming from TH instead of Hanoi. I reckon a lot of it could be done the same, do you have any recommendations on my best route to loop back to TH?
Also, I’ve seen a few comments about Muong Lat, am I right that you need a permit to stay overnight there? How would one go about getting a permit? Seems like a shame to have to pass that place over instead of staying.
Thanks again for your hard work!
Hi Ryan,
The airport road (QL47) from Thanh Hoa takes you all the way up to Lam Son on the Ho Chi Minh Road, from where it’s not far to Ngoc Lac which is on the loop.
I’d imagine you’d need to visit government or police offices (công an) in the bigger villages in order to attempt to get a permit to stay in Moung Lat. But I don’t think it’s really worth it: instead, just make sure you give yourself enough time to get there and back in one day on the road.
I hope you enjoy your trip.
Best,
Tom
Hello Tom and thank you for this wonderful gem. I feel really lucky to have found your website.
I’m currently on the second section of the Limestone loop (riding a Honda XR 150). A few updates –
Homestay no. 8 in Poom Coong (Mai Chau) is not there anymore, or at least I couldn’t find it after a 30 minute search + help from the locals.
I’d highly recommend Duy Phuong homestay in Ban Hieu. Their location is one of the highest in the area watching the valley below, and for 450k/night including breakfast, it’s very worth it.
One question regarding the border pass/permit in Muong Lat – does this mean you can just pass there if you don’t stay for the night? Is that allowed?
Thanks again and hope this helps someone
Hi Orie,
Thanks for the useful updates and recommendations.
It sounds to me from other riders’ comments and trip reports from the area over the last few months that riding through the Muong Lat area is OK, but staying overnight is not. However, I can’t guarantee that.
Please do post a comment here if you decide to ride through Muong Lat so other riders can benefit from your experience.
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom.
Once again thanks for the amazing work you do. This is currently the first route of yours Im doing whilst having a month in the North.
I was looking forward to doing the DT520 as it’s in your top25 roads and after riding it I can completely see why. Also for me the 15km stretch of QL15C up towards the Pu Luong retreats was just incredible!
Anyways, what was disappointing is the fact I never read the comments under this post especially regarding the permit issue in Muong Lat. I had actually planned to stop at the Homestay in Muong Ly when a similar thing happened regarding handing over passport only to be met with police and higher ranks 30mins later. English was a problem but they were friendly and it was early enough to continue on the Lao Loop round to Mai Chau. It did however take away the beauty of the second half of the drive as I was tired, sore, and a little exhausted. So for anyone reading this, I would follow Tom’s advice and stay in Quan Son possibly or like me complete the Loop in a single day, just bear in mind it will take its tool.
Hi Pat,
Sorry to hear about that, and thanks for the trip report.
Yes, it would appear that border areas across the nation are particularly sensitive and strict at the moment – I’ve had other reports from readers on routes in other areas like this.
I hope you can enjoy the rest of your road trip without anymore issues.
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,
I just called Puluong Treehouse in order to book a family room and they quoted the price of VND2,6 million/night, So it is more like a resort now and not inexpensive anymore. Just want to update some info about one of the homestay you listed.
Best,
Tammy
Hi Tammy,
Thank you for the update, I appreciate it.
Best,
Tom
Hello Tom, Such a great article and so very detailed. Puts a lot of writers to shame. I’m actually going to Mai Chau & Pu Luong starting tomorrow (25th October) & saw this article and so will be doing a very similar trip (I’m starting from near Nam Dinh and not Hanoi). This has been invaluable mate. Will let you know any updates along the way of you need any? Cheers
Hi Simon,
Thanks for your message. Great to hear you’ll be travelling to the Pu Luong area – it’s so lovely there. I hope you enjoy your time. Yes, any updates would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Tom
As of June 2020, foreigners are cautioned in the area near Laos off DT520, especially in Sơn Thuy which is a gorgeous town. I was kicked out my nha nghi when the border police showed up and demanded a permit. They were nice and apologized but made me leave in the rain at 10pm. Closest nha nghi was 50 kms away. Hated to leave bc I’ve ridden tons in Vietnam over the 3 yrs I’ve lived here and this was by far the most surprising loop I’ve done. Simply epic views and being on an off-road bike, I found TONS of single track trails to ride.
Hi KC,
Thank you for the update.
Tom
I’m currently in Muong Lat and spent the whole day and evening dealing with the police. Our hotel called the police when we arrived to check in to ask their permission for us to stay in the town. Two police officers came and interviewed us for an hour after which they said we could stay.
An hour after we went to sleep we were woken up by a group of five border defense officers who told us we were in violation of border laws and would be fined. They brought a translator with them who wasn’t great at English.
After an hour of writing up statements they told us we would have to pay 3 million or leave town immediately. We opted to leave and drive through the night. They then demanded we sign the two page statements they had written which were in Vietnamese which we refused to sign. There was a half hour argument over not signing their statement.
We started packing and the police left. Then 10 minuutes later the hotel owner walked in with the first police officer we’d spoken to earlier in the day on a video call on his cellphone who told use we were actually allowed to stay now.
Maybe they’re bored with the borders being closed or were just trying to get some money out of us. Either way it doesn’t seem worth the risk staying in this town at this time.
Otherwise it has been a great trip so far. Thanks for the guides!
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m sorry to hear about the difficulties at Muong Lat – it sounds bad. Yes, border areas are always sensitive, but I think it’s quite likely that the situation is more delicate at the moment because of COVID. The border police are essentially in charge of people coming in and out of the country, and right now that’s a huge responsibility. So I’m guessing they’re much stricter, nervous and jumpier than usual.
I hope the return journey goes smoothly.
Tom
G’day Tom,
I have only just stumbled upon your website and have to say it’s a delight to read. I can well understand why you have fallen in love with Vietnam having lived and worked in Hanoi for 6 years back in the 90’s. We recently did a family trip which partly followed your Limestone Loop. The difference is that from Pu Luong we travelled down to Ninh Binh and then into Thanh Hoa, to visit my wife’s family, before returning to Hanoi. We did this with 3 scooters and a 12 seater minibus for my 87 yr old mum, my in-laws, my wife and 6 year old son. This certainly helped as we did not have the extra weight of bags on the scooters. And you are so right about the infinity pool being a draw card! Cocktails at sunset while you swim looking down over the rice fields was amazing!! 🙂 In 1995 I travelled from Sa Pa back to Hanoi, via Dien Bien Phu, and Son La, in an aging Russian Jeep with very little suspension to speak of. The scenery was spectacular and is probably what created my love for the real Vietnam away from the cities.
We are planning on returning to Vietnam, hopefully Sept/Oct 2021, assuming the world has returned to some sort of normalcy by then. I have convinced my wife that doing the northern loop is a great idea. The last time I was in the Ha Giang/Cao Bang/Lan Son area was back in early 1995 and I was in an Embassy 4 wheel drive with a driver. Anyway, We are looking to start our trip in Sa Pa through to Ha Giang, Cao Bang, Lang Son and then back to Hanoi. Sadly time is a factor and I am planning on taking 10-12 days to do the trip. By then my 90 yr old mother will again be travelling with us, her 11th trip to Vietnam and probably her last, along with my ageing Vietnamese in-laws. So there will be 4-6 scooters and a 12 seat minibus doing a combination of the loop trips you’ve describe. My question is given we have a mini bus following along with us are there any roads, or options, you would avoid due to road conditions. I understand that this is a very open question and that weather is a major contributing factor to your answer, especially in this region. I guess what I am asking is which route/s would you suggest, that are passable in all weather conditions, and still offer the back road experience which we love so much!!
Thank you again for bringing back some wonderful memories!!
Cheers
Brett
Hi Brett,
Thanks for your message and it’s great to hear you’ve had so many travel experiences in Vietnam.
If you’re planning on travelling between Sapa and Cao Bang then the routes you’ll be referring to on my site will be (from west to east): Sapa to Ha Giang | Ha Giang Loop | High Roads | Northeast Loops.
The main routes in all of these guides are paved and possible my motorbike and mini-bus. However, they are also all very mountainous and prone to landslides, muddy conditions, and flooding if the weather has been bad.
In general, my maps have rough roads marked on them – this is particularly important on the High Roads guide and the Northeast Loops guide – and in some cases it’s certainly not possible/advisable to attempt these in a mini-bus. For example, parts of the red route and green route in the High Roads should be avoided, as should parts of the Northeast Routes. Please refer to my maps and text for this. And remember that road trips in the north often have to change due to weather, so the more flexible your itinerary is the better.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Hello ,
First of all thanks for the many information people may read on this website
did someone do the traject between Ban Hieu along Lung Van Intersection and north-east to AH13 in the opposite way coming from Tam Coc ? this because I read about a very stipe part ? We want to do it end of this month …
You have knowledge about too bad parts for the moment ?
greetings , Geert ,
Hi Geert,
Yes, parts of the road between Ban Hieu and Lung Van intersection are very steep, but should be fine as long as your bike is in good condition. The section marked ‘extraordinary road’ on my map here is very steep. After that there are some parts of the road that are in bad condition.
Tom
Thanks Tom for Quick reply !
Maybe you have write … I found somewhere you were driving with automatic or semi-automatic scooter , but I am not a bike-freak…and don’t know if this is a motorbike with much power ? how many cc ?
And so it does’nt matter if you do it in the opposite way ?
greetings , Geert
Hi Geert,
Yes, I ride an automatic bike – it’s 110cc. This is fine as long as it is in good condition.
But if you are concerned about power, you can rent something more powerful, like 125cc or more.
Tom
Hi Tom
Love your website. I used it to plan a cycling trip out of Mai Chau. Using your ‘Limestone Loop’ guide, I cycled the 60km from Mai Chau through Pu Luong nature reserve to Canh Nang. Then the next day rode 70km back to Mai Chau along the Ma River. An awesome ride, albeit with some challenging climbs, especially through the Pu Luong reserve.
I’m now about the use your site for research for my next cycling trip to Vietnam.
Cheers
Graham (from Australia)
Hi Graham,
Thank you, it’s really great to hear that. I’m glad it was a good ride last time – but those climbs must have been pretty tough!
Tom
Is there anyone who has driven a motorcycle from ninh binh / tam coc to mai chau / pu luong? Which path do you recommend? Do you have any tips for this trip?
Hi Krzysiek,
You could take road QL12B west towards Cuc Phuong National Park and then join road QL15 south and then west towards Pu Luong and Mai Chau. Although I don’t know what the current conditions of those roads are.
Tom
Hello All,
This guide is awesome. I’ve been using for weeks here in Vietnam and it’s spot on and so helpful, thank you!
I’ve just completed the lao loop, roads are in good condition, some minor dirt rock sections but a scooter can make it no problem. On the southern side of the loop the roads appear to be new and in great condition.
I also did most of the routes inside the Pu Luong nature reserve, these roads were also in good condition, I think a scooter can make it no problem.
Today I’m going for the DT432A in Pu Luong that has that bad section that is described above has not even a road but a rocky steep stretch. I’m on a Honda CRF250L…this is a proper dirt bike…much larger and heavier than a scooter. Let’s see how it goes. 🙂
That 1k section is a bit tricky…it’s definitely doable on a scooter, I did it on a Honda CRF250L, a larger dirt bike, it wasn’t too bad, just had to go slow.
Finding the start of the trail was a little tricky, it looks like a foot path going to a home. I had to ask a local for some help, worked out.
Thanks again for this guide!!!!
Hi Tyler,
Glad you made it. It was pretty hard work on a scooter, especially with three GIVI boxes attached 🙂 But my bike’s not designed for that kind of riding.
I hope that little section gets paved some time, because it creates a nice scenic loop.
Thanks,
Tom
Hi Tyler,
Great to hear you’re enjoying riding this loop. And thank you for the updates. It’s good to know the roads are decent now.
Enjoy,
Tom
Hi Tom, thanks for all your awesome posts about exploring Vietnam.
I’m planning a bike trip up around North Vietnam for a week early in the new year. I know the weather won’t be the best but was wondering which loop you think would be better: ‘the limestone loop’ or ‘the extreme northwest loop’?
Hi Tam,
Yes, that’s a difficult question. But I think I would choose the Limestone Loop, because if the weather turns out to be really bad, you’re not too far away from villages and towns to sit out the rain and cold 🙂
Also, please check the comments section at the bottom of both of those guides to see any feedback or updates that readers have contributed recently.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the great guide. I used this site a few years ago to do the ho chi minh road south to north. Since then i’ve moved out here and currently live out in Hai Phong. I’m thinking to make a trip out and do this loop, I just wondered if you knew a nice way out there from Hai Phong city that would avoid going into hanoi or spending too much time around container trucks….
Thanks again for the guide, it’s awesome.
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
Good to hear you moved to Vietnam.
I haven’t ridden between the Limestone Loop area and Hai Phong for years so I don’t have any good tips for that. But when I did do it, I just weaved a course on QL and DT roads between Cam Thuy and Hai Phong, sort of skirting Ninh Binh, Nam Dinh, and Thai Binh. You definitely don’t need to go all the way up to Hanoi to link up with the Limestone Loop. Some of those Red River Delta roads are busy with trucks but others are pretty nice – I just don’t have any current information on it. But let me know if you find a good route.
Tom
Hi there, wonderful info I have to say big BRAVO for your efforts.
I did 1300km last December from HCMC to Hue and loved it although the last bit was very wet.
I am keen to follow the loop you mention from Hanoi between 17th December and 28th Dec. Is the weather very cold at that time there? I read it should not be too wet.
Thanks for responding.
Philippe.
Hi Philippe,
Yes, it could be cold, especially on the high passes. It could also be wet, but probably not pouring rain; drizzle is quite common that time of year. It depends, really: if the sun is out, even in December, it can still be very nice and warm.
Tom
We currently are in the homestay of the Tu Son waterfall. It is actually a crazy place. In the jungle and not too expensive. We didn’t know that an homestay was located here. The entry is not free (66000D each + 5000D per motorbike). Thank you for the indication about the waterfall on your map ! The place is almost magical. Clémence
Hi Clémence,
Really great to hear that – glad you’re enjoying it 🙂
Tom
/!\ Road conditions on 22/9 /!\
First of all, Tom, thank you so much for all the ressources you provide on this blog.
Then, as I am currently doing this loop, I would like to share my experience : Don’t take the road between “bản Chiềng Nưa” and “muong lat” except if you are a good driver liking challenges. It’s 15km of land, rock, sand- slides. Impossible to drive above 5km/h, only cycles can pass, it is impossible for cars. Sometimes it can be very dangerous.
I wanted to do the “lao loop” in more or less one day, but I was so tired that i stopped in Muong Lat. Surprisingly, I think it is easier with a light motorbike rather a heavy one, like mine (honda xr).
Please take care !
Hi Thibaut,
Thanks for the update. Fortunately there are two routes between Chieng Nua and Muong Lat: so if there are landslides on the road along the river, you can turn due south at Chieng Nua over a bridge across the river, which eventually links with road DT520 to Muong Lat.
Sorry to hear that you had to change your travel plans because of the road conditions – the Lao Loop is always prone to landslides, unfortunately.
Tom
Tom,
Wanted to update about this section. It’s being worked on and is in decent condition. It’s probably at the best phase as it’s rideable and no cars want to go. I just went yesterday
Thanks for the update. Good to know it’s in decent condition.
Tom
Hey Tom, really enjoyed reading all your guides to Vietnam.
I am thinking of doing this loop in August, and wasn’t sure what the rain is like in the area. Do you know if I’d be able to rent a motorbike in Mai Chau and continue riding along the Lao pass? What are the road conditions like in the current weather?
Thank you!
Hi Nicole,
There have been some reports of bad road conditions on QL15 south of Mai Chau. In general, the roads in that region tend to suffer from landslides after heavy rain because they pass through such mountainous terrain, so there’s always the possibility of delays or sections of bad road surface. It’s best to be as flexible as possible.
You should be able to rent a motorbike somewhere in Mai Chau – maybe from one of the homestays or hotels there.
Please bear in mind that I am currently updating the text in this guide: the map is complete, but the information in the guide is still being updated and should be finished by the end of this week.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Thanks for the quick response, and really appreciate you working on the update!
Do you know if the road conditions up in the Ha Giang area over to Ma Pi Leng is better? I have ~5 days in the North, and would like to check out the areas outside of Ha Noi.
Thanks again for your help!
Hi Nicole,
Again, it’s very difficult to know about the Ha Giang region. However, if anything, it is even more mountainous than the Limestone Loop, so if there’s been heavy rain it’s highly likely they’ll be landslides in places and some patches of muddy roads. It’s a general factor of motorbiking in the northern mountains, especially at this time of year.
Tom
Hey Tom,
Your guides have gotten me from HCMC up to Phong Nha in one piece these past few weeks and I am so grateful, especially as a solo first-time rider! Thank you for all the work you continue to put into this incredible site.
I was hoping you could give me some advice on how best to get up to Hà Giang from Phong Nha via part of the Limestone Loop. I’m thinking Phong Nha—Vinh—Thanh Hóa—Mai Châu—Yên Bái / Tuyên Quang—Hà Giang. For the bit between Thanh Hóa and Mai Châu, would you suggest going along the river on QL15 or through the reserve on QL15C if I only had time for one?
If you have any recommendations on the entire route or better cities to stopover in, that would be much appreciated as well! Many thanks in advance.
Hi Jade,
From Phong Nha continue due north on the Ho Chi Minh Road all the way to Ngoc Lac or Cam Thuy (don’t go to Vinh along the coast) – see sections 6 & 7 of this guide. Then turn west off the Ho Chi Minh Road toward Pu Luong Nature Reserve on either QL15 or QL217. The take QL15C from Canh Nang through Pu Luong which is a beautiful ride. From Mai Chau you’ll need to take QL6 to Hoa Binh and then head north towards Phu Tho and Tuyen Quang to join QL2 to Ha Giang – that’s a long ride but it’s worth it to get to the Extreme North Loop.
I hope this helps,
Tom
What’s the state of the full Lao Loop at the moment? Last year some people were complaining about the DT520 being bad.
Hi Nic,
520 is excellent now – they’ve finished repaving the whole road and it’s great fun to ride.
I’m in the process of updating this guide right now, and I’m planning to modify (or at least offer as an alternative route) the Lao Loop so that it starts from Quan Hoa and follows 520 all the way to Muong Lat then looping back towards Mai Chau on the currently unnamed road following the Nam Ma River. The latter is good for roughly 90% of the way back to QL15, but there are still a couple of sections that are bad due to dam and road construction. In good weather it should be fine to ride.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Ah, thanks for the update on the loop! Might try to do both versions of the it and end up doing the really scenic section of the 520 from both directions.
Another thing I was wondering was if there are still cheap priced homestays in the nature reserve. Seems like the ones you’ve mentioned in the guide became popular and increased prices to fit demand. Will I still find a 200,000 sleep and eat spot around Ban Hieu or somewhere equally scenic?
Hi Nic,
Yes, there are still plenty of cheap homestays in Pu Luong – near Ban Hieu and all over the nature reserve. You’ll see the homestay maps on billboards as you ride through the park.
Tom
Hi Tom,
We’re back home now and have had an awesome trip through Vietnam.Thank you so much for your guides, it really helped us planning. We started in Hanoi and drove all the way to Hoi An usuing the Ho Chi minh highway. I want to give some updates regarding the status of the differents roads we took.
Hanoi to Mai chau we followed section one from the limestoneloop. First part was quite crowded and busy(leaving Hanoi). The further we went the less trafic we saw. Some busy parts, but most of the road was pretty nice to drive.
Mai Chai to Tam coc: Straight through Pu Luong (road CL15C). Great road to drive with an average pace of 40 km/h+. After CL15C we took CL217, which was a nice road to drive), to the east driving to CL12B. CL12B was the worst road we’ve seen on the entire trip. Loads of constructions, dust everywhere, full of trucks, people should avoid this route if possible. The last bit we took AH1 to Tam Coc. The entire day took us from 9AM to 5 PM+-.
Tam Coc to Phong Nha: Took AH1 all the way to Thanh Hoa (+-1hour drive). From Thanh Hoa we took CL47 untill we reached the Ho Chi Minh highway again. CL47 was a really nice route to drive. Roads we’re quite empty, in really good condition and plenty of good looking parts. Would surely recommend this route.
Rest of the road is known and just like your guide. All well paved roads and perfect to drive. The part from Phong Nha to Khe sanh was absolutely the best part of our entire motortrip. Would recommend it for sure. I think it will be best to not drive this part alone, because somethimes you won’t see anyone for hours. We brought some extra fuel, but did not need it.
So once again, thanks for all your information!
Greetings,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Great to hear that you had a good time on your road trip.
Thank you for the updates. Sorry to hear about road QL12B, but QL47 sounds like a good and interesting ride.
Yes, I agree about the section between Phong Nha and Khe Sanh – incredible ride.
Thanks again,
Tom
Hi Tom, first of all thank you so much for this website; I did to Tomb Rider route today and it was fantastic :-).
Quick question: in few days I’ll be in Ninh Binh and then I was thinking of doing the first part of the loop (in reverse) by driving through the QL15c and then up to Hanoi via Mai Chau. From Ninh Binh G-maps is suggesting to take the QL45 then the QL217: do you have any update regarding the road conditions ? (Especially of the latter…).
Thanks a lot for your help!
Hi Ale,
I last rode QL45 a long time ago – back then it was fine back pretty potholed. I would imagine they’ve upgraded it since then, but if they haven’t it would be a fairly bumpy ride. QL217 up to the Ho Chi Minh Road was OK last time I rode it, but again some potholes. However, I would hope they’ve repaved that too by now. After crossing the Ho Chi Minh Road, QL217 was undergoing repairs last time I was there (October 2017). If you want to avoid that, you can take QL15 instead. QL15C through the park is still good, and then joining QL15 to Mai Chau is fine, but there’s one horrible bit just after you join from QL15C as it meets the Ma River.
If you do this ride, any updates you can send would be much appreciated.
Tom
Hi Tom,
first of all thanks so much for this awesome website. It makes it possible for a less experienced rider like me to still make this very special travel experience. I am loving it!
May I ask for one more advice? Do you have recommendations on which roads would be best to connect the Limestone Loop and the area around Sapa? I would like to avoid going into Hanoi or its suburbs.
Cheers from Phong Nha, Claudia
Hi Claudia,
Yes, there are several ways to connect Mai Chau with the Sapa area, but the most direct and reliable are either QL6 (AH13) via Son La and Dien Bien Phu, or cutting across on QL37 to meet QL32 up to Sapa via Nghia Lo. Either way it’s a pretty long ride (at least two days), but these are the roads that are generally in good condition. There are many other options – criss-crossing between these two main roads – but road conditions are notoriously unreliable.
Please bear in mind that the Limestone Loop guide on this page is due an update, which I’m currently in the process of doing.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Thanks for your quick response!
Do you know if there are accomodations along that route? Or would I have to plan my daily rides regarding to where I will find a bed for the night?
Hi Claudia,
There are local guest houses (nha nghi) in all the towns on those roads – for more about nha nghi see this.
Tom
Hello Tom
I am planning to visit Mai Chau and Pu Luong by myself in Oct 2018, could I know is there any transportation rum between Mai Chau and Pu Luong there since I don’t know how to ride the motorbike
Many thanks
Kentchi
Hi Kentchi,
There probably is a local public bus between Mai Chau and Canh Nang/Ba Thuoc (close to Pu Luong Nature Reserve), but I doubt it takes road QL15C, which is the one that goes straight through the park. However, it’s probably quite easy to arrange transportation in Mai Chau yourself: for example, a local motorbike taxi (xe ôm), or at least your hosts in Mai Chau homestays will be able to suggest means to get to Pu Luong.
I hope this helps,
Tom
I fly into Hanoi early on March 9, I’ll leave Hanoi late on March 25th. I will try to do most of the Limestone Loop clockwise and then connect from MAI CHÂU to Sìn Hồ, where I will do a conglomerate of your different routes. What’s the best route from MAI CHÂU to Sìn Hồ?
Hi Nick,
Please note that I’m currently updating the Limestone Loop guide. There are some changes: for example, road QL15C through Pu Luong Nature Reserve is complete and a very beautiful ride.
From Mai Chau to Sin Ho there are many different combinations of roads to take. Two nice routes are: Road QL6 to Nga Ba Co Noi then turning east on road QL37 all the way until it joins QL32 and take that all the way until it meets QL4D at Binh Lu. Or continue on road QL6 from Mai Chau all the way to Muong Lay, or cut across on roads DT106 or QL279 to meet QL32 to Binh Lu. However, road conditions can be a problem in the northwest. Of these routes, the first one (via QL37) and the second one (via QL6) are usually the best in terms of road quality, but there’s no guarantee. The more time you have for these routes the better.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Perfect, sounds like there aren’t too many ways to go wrong. Thanks for the response Tom.
Your website is very impressive and full of insight. In a few months, a friend and I are going to spend 35 days riding the country from South to North. I watched a video recently from Tigit motorbikes where it was recommended to take the train from Dong Hoi up to Hanoi because the riding was not very great. This limestone loop seems to suggest otherwise (as well as the 100 km from Phong Nha to Pheo). If we do opt to ride into Hanoi rather than take the train, which section of the limestone loop do you recommend riding (assuming we could only choose one part), the western half or the eastern half? I was leaning towards the western half since it would allow us to possibly ride the “Lao Loop” as well. I wanted to hear your suggestions because its clear that you are quite knowledgeable about riding throughout the country. In your opinion is there anything from this part of the country that absolutely must not be missed? (with regard to beautiful scenery and fun roads) Thanks from a fellow motorcycle and travel enthusiast from Minnesota.
Hi Gary,
As long as you have the time there is plenty of good riding between Dong Hoi and Hanoi. In particular, as you say, the ride from Phong Nha to Pheo is superb. After that stay on the Ho Chi Minh Road all the way to Ngoc Lac or Cam Thuy, which is a very agricultural, lush, easy, smooth ride, although not spectacular scenery (unless you turn off west on Road QL7A towards Con Cuong and Pu Mat National Park, but that’s going a bit out of the way). There’s also the possibility of taking one of the boats around the ‘floating’ tea plantations (Doi Che Bac Son Thanh An) in Nghe An Province before reaching the intersection with Road QL7A – it’s just a short side trip.
The Limestone Loop is great – very scenic and some good riding roads. I was there recently and am now updating this guide, including the route: it should be finished before you arrive in Vietnam. But in general, the best roads are QL15C and DT520. After that you can either continue on the loop to Mai Chau and hit Highway QL6 back toward Hanoi (the first part out from Mai Chau is scenic) or loop back to the Ho Chi Minh Road to Hanoi instead (the section from Cam Thuy to around the Perfume Pagoda is great), but inevitably the last hour or so into Hanoi on either route is grim.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Hi Tom,
First of all I want to thank you for the informaton you’ve provided on your website. It’s extremely helpfull for planning my motorbike trip with a friend.
We want to do a trip from Hanoi to Hoi An. We don’t want to take highway 1, but want to take some nice routes.
Starting from Hanoi we will take section 1, then we will take section 2. After section 2 we will drive to Tam Coc using CL217 and CL45. We want to make a stop in Tam Coc for 2 nights (1 full day). After Tam Coc we will drive from Tam Coc to Phong Nha, using the Ho Chi Minh Highway. In Phong Nha we will explore some caves and will stay a total of 2 nights probably (1 full day). From thereon we will drive to Hue, where we will sleep for 1 night. After Hue we will go to Hoi An using th Hai van Pass. Finish in Hoi An. We got a total of 10 days to go from Hanoi to Hoi An. We got a total of 8 days on the motor, and 2 days where we will not drive at all (1 day in tam coc and 1 day in Phong Nha).
We’re quite experienced drivers and wil have solid bikes from Tigit Motorbikes, which should save us some time.
The planning is a bit thight, im fully aware of it, but we want to see as much as possible and don’t take highway 1.
Do you think my suggested route is possible? Do you have any suggestions to improve our plan?
Thanks in Advance,
Greetings, Tom
Hi Tom,
I think your itinerary is fine, but you might be pushed for time, especially is anything doesn’t go according to plan – which often happens on these trips: for example, a section of road that’s in bad condition which slows you down, or bad weather etc.
For the first two sections to Pu Luong Nature Reserve, from Mai Chau to Canh Nang take road QL15C straight through the nature reserve – it’s a wonderfully scenic ride and the road is in decent condition now. Please note that I’m in the process of updating my Limestone Loop guide so some of the information may change.
From Pu Luong to Tam Coc, QL217 was quite rough last time I rode it, and I’m not sure of the condition of QL45. If you do take these roads if you could please let me know of any updates on their condition that would be great.
From Tam Coc to Phong Nha is a very long drive (around 500km) for one day. It’s a much better idea to drive it in two. From Phong Nha to Hue in one day is fine, and also Hue to Hoi An. I assume, if you want to avoid Highway 1, you will be following the Tomb Rider and Hai Van Pass guides, in reverse of course.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Thanks for your reply Tom.
We will go in march, so let’s hope the weather will be good to us. I will let you know what the road conditions are. When will your updated guide be availible?
Thanks for the tomb rider guide tip. The Ho Chi Minh highway close to the Laos boarder is the road i had in mind. We will drive from Phong Nha to Khe Sanh, depending on the time we will sleep in Khe Sanh and then continue to Hue. Or do you think the Tomb Rider route is better?
Thanks again.
Hi Tom,
Oh, I see: I just assumed because you were tight on time you’d be taking the coastal route in Tomb Rider. But the Western Ho Chi Minh Road from Phong Nha to Khe Sanh is fabulous so definitely take that if you have the time: but again it’s a long ride so overnighting in Khe Sanh makes sense. I’ve written about that route in detail is section 5 of this guide – but again you’ll need to follow it backwards 🙂
I have all the new information from a recent trip for the Limestone Loop, I’m just trying to get other things finished before I write the full update for that guide. But I don’t know exactly when that will be – hopefully within a month.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the reply once again. Depending on our timeschedule we will choose between the Tomb Rider route or the hcm highway.
Last question: Do you think it is possible to drive from Mai Chau to Tam coc in 1 day? Going the route I talked earlier about? And assuming the weather will be good to us?
Thanks
Hi Tom,
Yes, it should be possible to ride that in one day. However, it does depends on road conditions and weather, but the distance (it’s under 200km) is not too far for one day – it’s still a good idea to leave at a decent time in the morning so that you have plenty of time to get there.
Tom
Thanks for the web site and nice road to explore!
I just came back from a part of the Limestone Loop. Pu Luong is amazing, but the road at the moment are in very bad condition because if the rain. The main road is fine, but the dirt track are a nightmare. On the way to Ban Hieu, it’s really muddy and extremly slippery. A part of the road just felt in the River. They are building a small bamboo bridge that I guess should be temporary to cross the River. Vietnameses guys told me I was crazy to try to get there and in fact, with those condition, if was almost true! Finally, I didnt slept there, the price were too high… (Mr. Si ask for 400 000 D. Without dinner for a room in is niece house). With the heavy rain of yesterday night, I don’t think it would have been possible to drive back today.
Also, between Canh Nanh and Quan Hoa, the River pass over the bridge at 2 places… I had water to the knees when I was driving those part…
In Quan Hoa, at Nha Nghi Song Ma, the lady was asking 300 000 D for the night, which I think it was pricey. I went just the road next to the gas station and find a ok place for 150 000 D.
So I hope those informations will help the people that are on their way there!
Thanks again!
Hi Marie,
Thanks very much for sharing your experience on this route – the road and price updates are very valuable information for me and for other readers.
Sorry to hear about the bad weather conditions – it sounds like very difficult riding conditions.
Tom
Hi Marie-France! Thanks for the details.
May I ask if the “main” road of Pu Luong is paved or is it also mud? I’ll be there in 2 weeks and all I’ll have is a scooter.
My route goes from Mai Chau to Puluong Retreat.
Hey Tom,
Followed your advice and branched out of the HCM road to go through Pu Luong nature reserve. Wow ! The ql15c is in ok shape on some parts, terrible in others. But the scenery was amazing ! I think this might be my favorite ride so far since leaving Saigon. Thanks so much for the advice i would never have taken this road otherwise !
Hi Francois,
Great! Yes, Pu Luong is gorgeous. Thanks for the updates on the condition of QL15 – that’s very helpful.
Tom
I forgot to give an advice for the people who wants to spend one night in Lang Chanh with a tight budget in my last post.
We wanted to stay at Chau Luong Homestay, but the girl at the reception asked 400 000 vnd for one night for a room. We thought it was very expensive and we tried to negociate the price without success. So, we decided to find another place for the night and we found a decent Nha Nghi located on the south road. As you leave the town, turn right just after the bridge. The price for one night is only 150 000 vnd and the owner is really friendly. He offered us jack fruit, tea and rice wine. The name is Nham Tuyet Nha Nghi and it is located near the rice field, good for an evening walk to meet (very friendly) people in the villages around after a long motorbike ride.
Thanks,
Alex
Hi Alex,
That’s great information, thanks!
Tom
Hi There,
We did the limestone loop last week. We really enjoyed that trip. The scenery is gorgeous and impressive all along the way. We took six days to do it and I think it’s a perfect time to discover this region.
I just want to notice that the road along the Ma river is a mess due to the traffic, there are a lot of trucks, and the road conditions are very bad sometimes. The Lao loop is amazing, but the first part of the trip is a nightmare. The road DT 520 is under construction (over almost 20km) and sometimes is very difficult to drive with a scooter because of stones and mudd. So, you can’t really enjoy the scenery.
I hope it can be helpful for next travellers.
Thank you again Tom to share your trips, because we really enjoyed this one. We have discovered a new beautiful area in Vietnam.
Sincerly,
Alex
Hi Alex,
Thanks, it’s great to hear that you enjoyed your trip. It is a beautiful area, indeed. And thank you for the valuable road updates – I’m sure that will be very helpful to other readers who are thinking about riding this route. I hope they finish upgrading the roads soon.
Tom
Hi Tom, i am thinking to make this loop in combination with Ninh binh an 2 days ha long …. how many days would we need for that starting from hanoi ?
Hi Mathias,
You could spend anything from 2-5 days on the Limestone Loop. But you could easily shorten it by cutting out the ‘Lao Loop’ section of the route.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Hi Tom
Me and my friend are going to do the limestone loop tomorrow, we are coming south from tan ky and intend to do it backwards from the ho chi Minh road but once we get to point B head south to vinh for a day or two and then into Hanoi, i have downloaded your maps but i noticed on the overall map there aren’t the hotel locations etc, you wouldn’t have all the different section maps with the hotels and attractions on would you ? Just because we are doing it backwards and from a mid point.
Thanks
Alex
Hi Alex,
No, I’m sorry I don’t. But you shouldn’t have too much of a problem finding places to stay in the main towns along the Limestone Loop, especially in nhà nghỉ (local guesthouses).
Also, please bear in mind that this guide is due an update, so I can’t guarantee that all the information will be accurate.
I hope you enjoy the ride,
Tom
Hi, Tom. I can’t open the Limestone Loop maps. I can see them on the webpage but they won’t open with the app. I tried with two different deviced. Is it just me? Thanks!
Hi,
That’s strange. It works OK with me. If you have another device, try that. It is just a simple link to Google Maps, so it should open in a new window.
I hope it works,
Tom
Hi there,
I will be coming to Vietnam next week for the sixth time. This time with my 9 years old daughter for 12 days. North only.
We plan to go to either Yen Bai or Ha Giang and also Mai Chau.
How is the roads condition these days? Do u think Tom, that once we’re in Mau Chau, we can rent a motorbike and wander all the way to Moc Chau and find a place to sleep there (we’d love to skip advanced booking).
Cheers,
Guy
Hi Guy,
Road conditions are pretty good now in Mai Chau and Ha Giang. Last time I was in Yen Bai, some roads surfaces were not great, but perhaps they’ve been repaved by now. However, because it’s the rainy season, if there’s been heavy rains in the mountains, landslides are common and can block roads for hours. So just keep an eye on the weather.
Yes, you should be able to rent a bike from Mai Chau. But you may have to negotiate for a while in order to keep it for an overnight trip up to Moc Chau. In general, you should be able to do it by leaving a copy of your passport and visa, and maybe also some collateral.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Thanks Tom. How long is it from Hanoi to Mai Chau, public transport? Different sites say anything between 2.5 to 4.5 hours.
Yes, 3-4 hours probably.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Have been really enjoying your website. I’ve actually been reading with the intention of cycling one of these routes. The Limestone route is of particular interest. I’m looking at riding late December/early January. Can you suggest if this is a good idea? I am wondering how intense the elevation will be and whether the weather will be manageable at this time of the year (and also be good for scenery) Thanks for your time!
Hi Ross,
Well, winter isn’t a great time for that loop because the temperatures can get quite low – especially on the mountain passes. And there’s often a mist and little rain hanging around. But there are also nice days too, of course.
There are some very steep climbs on this route: the pass between Hoa Binh and Mai Chau is big, and the roads inside Pu Luong Nature Reserve are very steep too. But it’s certainly doable by bicycle and very scenic too.
On the whole I think this is a good, if challenging, cycling route. However, the long crawl out of Hanoi won’t be too fun – consider putting your bike on a bus to Hoa Binh or Cam Thuy and starting the ride from there.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Thanks Tom, that is great advice! Factoring in elevation, weather and scenery what would be your recommended route? I’ve been through so many different options (even other countries) and it is hard to lock in a decision. A loop would be best so my friend and I can just hire bicycles. From what I have read maybe the Golden Loop is a better option then?
Thanks again!
Hi Ross,
Yes, there are lots of good loops. The problem is the weather in December/January – it’s best in the south at that time of year. Anywhere north of Nha Trang can experience changeable conditions, and anywhere north of Danang can be pretty bad. But this is always just a chance you take.
If you want guaranteed good weather then stick to the south: have a look at my Tet Lunar New Year Classic, for example.
The Golden Loop is great too. But there’s a bit more of a risk with the weather in that region. Having said that, I had perfect conditions there in January a few years ago.
For more about Vietnam’s complicated climate see this.
As for elevation, unless you stick entirely to the coast, you are going to have to deal with some pretty big climbs. But the reward is fantastic scenery.
Personally, if I was to choose a cycle route for December/February in Vietnam it was be in the south, probably the Lunar New Year Classic, or at least parts of it. You can browse all my southern routes here.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Thanks Tom! That route looks great too. Going to lock this in!!
I hardly recognized Mai Chau from the time I was there 5-6 years ago. It’s just a disaster now in my opinion 🙁
Sorry, that is not really a helpful comment, but it was something I wanted to say.
I will say I really enjoyed the ride from there to moc chau, especially the first third or so. In fifteen minutes I had escaped to a new world of freshness and open road. If you are in mai chau and not visiting the north, you can get a quick taste by riding out an hour towards moc chau and returning.
Hi Chris,
Yes, I know what you mean – Mai Chau is kind of a victim of its own success. But it is still a beautiful position and once you find a homestay you really like it still has plenty of charm.
However, Pu Luong Nature Reserve is the place to be right now in that area.
I agree, the ride to Moc Chau is great – although it’s rained all but one of the times that I’ve ridden it! 🙂
Tom
I stayed at a guest house in Na Meo about five or six years ago if anyone is interested in staying there. On the Laos side there was no place to stay, basically just one noodle hut and eight or so people selling goods on the ground. A truck came by at some point and we loaded up in that. Can’t recall where we went but had a place to sleep.
Thanks for sharing, Chris. Yes, it’s a very remote border at Na Meo, but beautiful!
Tom
I’m at the Valley View Hotel in Mai Chau. This was my first stop from Hanoi and I am torn between going through the Limestone loop and Pi Luong or going up north making my way to Sapa and Ha Giang or staying down here and exploring this area before turning towards the Ho Chi Minh road and beginning my journey South to HCMC. It’s June 15 now and my schedule is open until early August. This is my first time doing something like this and I guess I am looking for feedback and suggestions.
Thanks
Reed
Hi Reed,
Both of those routes are good. If you go north to Sapa and Ha Giang then you’ll be in the mountains all the time. But if you go to Pu Luong and then south on the Ho Chi Minh Road you with be in the south sooner and therefore have more time for coast and beaches. So it just deepens what you want to spend more time doing: mountains or beaches.
With the amount of time that you have, you should be able to ride north to Sapa and Ha Giang, and then start heading south back to Mai Chau and Pu Luong and onto the Ho Chi Minh Road too.
I hope this helps,
Tom
QL15 along the river is terrible now (almost all the way to Mai Chau) – they are widening it considerably, and at the moment there’s no asphalt on most of it (very dusty) and although the views are very beautiful at times, most of the time you can admire terrible environmental damage caused by this heavy construction
I would definitely recommend skipping it for Pu Luong at the moment
Hi Antek,
Thanks for the road update. Yes, other readers have commented about the bad state of Q15 at the moment. However, it will be nice when it’s finished, because that road really did need widening 🙂
Tom
Just did Road 15 south to north – sure, the road is wide and smooth after Quan Hoa, but the industrial mess around is a horrible eyesore. It’s like a war zone or an open wound gone bad almost all the way from Quan Hoa to Mai Chau. Looking at the state of it it now it will be so for at least some years to come. Avoid, if possible.
Hi Ijon,
Thanks for the update – I was there recently and am currently re-writing the entirety of this guide.
Tom
We travelled part of this route last week to enter Laos. QL217 was paved but bumpy from Cam Thuy past Canh Nang. After QL15 split off, QL217 was perfect with brand new pavement all the way to the Laos border. There were a few short sections where the construction hasn’t finished, but overall it was a beautiful drive on great road to the border. We had no issues bringing a Vietnamese bike with blue card (not registered in our name) through the Na Meo border into Laos.
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the updates. Great to hear that the road to Laos is in good condition and also that you had no problems getting your bikes across the border.
I hope you enjoy riding there too.
Tom
I did slightly modified sections 1,2 and 4 and oh man, this was amazing! Thanks for bringing my attention to this less known part of Vietnam, was fantastic finishing of my Saigon-Hanoi trip (I thought that after Phong Nha I saw the best parts already, but I was wrong!). Pu Luong is amazing, I did a trip across the whole reserve (https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zqqWp7oQqYc0.kGGNtBCbnd44&usp=sharing), and it was probably the best ride I had since leaving Saigon (and it says a lot).
I really recommend taking at least part of this trip, especially as a finisher for Saigon-Hanoi (so you will have some very strong accent for the end)
Hi Antek,
Yes, it’s a great way to cap off a south to north road trip. Pu Luong is fabulous, especially now that some of the roads running through the nature reserve are now paved – not all of them though, as you discovered!
Tom
Ya, there was a moment when I stopped to think if I’m really doing the right thing to go that way or not. Then I saw a girl going down, which gave me a relief for a moment (I thought it must not be so bad), just to witness her crashing into some other guy
But the views and nice people who live there were definitely worth any trouble and hardships 🙂
Hi Tom,
I’ve been frequenting your site now for a while and have kept coming back to it after researching and planning a trip to Vietnam for months, sifting through MANY blogs and agencies and travel guides. Thanks – like so many have said – for for providing such a quality source of information!! SO INVALUABLE.
My question is simple: how long did it take you to do this trip? I know everyone’s pace might be different, but I was wondering what yours was. Did you just break up each section into a day? (Sorry if this question has already been asked!) Any help would be much appreciated.
Miriam
Hi Miriam,
Happy to hear you’ve enjoyed reading my site.
The Limestone Loop is best done in 3-5 days. You could easily take a week if you had the time. However, there have been reports (see above comments) that the section between Mai Chau and Quan Hoa is currently under construction, so check with locals before you ride this section.
Yes, you could make each section a day, but you can remain pretty flexible for most of this loop. The only section that you really need to do in one day is the Lao Loop because there’s no accommodation on that section and it’s relatively long.
I hope this helps,
Tom
Hi, thanks for this information! I’m planning a North-South trip and your website has been extremely helpful.
About the homestays, when you do these trips, do you just show up in the town in the afternoon/evening, and find a homestay to stay at? Or is there somewhere where you can find phone numbers and call ahead? Mai Chau will be the first stop on my trip and i’d really like to stay in a homestay. I found some phone numbers on Travelfish for guesthouses, but the article was written over a year ago and things change fast in Vietnam!
Hi Gabby,
Yes, in general I do just show up and find a homestay. In Mai Chau there are so many that it’s not necessary to book in advance, unless perhaps if you are travelling on a weekend or public holiday.
The homestays in Pu Luong Nature Reserve are not as frequented as those in Mai Chau, but they do sometimes receive groups of walkers, who can take up all available space – but you’d be unlucky for that to happen.
I hope you enjoy some ‘homestay-hopping’ in this area 🙂
Tom
Hi Tom,
We would like to do this loop next April, and we would like to know how many days you would recommend to do it.
Thanks a lot for your help and for sharing your travel experiences on your blog! We did the Ha Giang loop last year and it was wonderful!
Alex
Hi Alex,
Ideally, 5 days to a week would be a good amount of time to have when doing the Limestone Loop. The distances aren’t that big, but half of the roads are small and windy.
Also, before you go, check on the road conditions from Mai Chau south to Canh Nang and Ngoc Lac (Road 15) because there have been some reports of road works as they are upgrading the route (see above comments).
Weather-wise April is hit and miss – it can be great, but also damp and misty at times.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thank you for your reply. I’m going to try for finding informations about the road conditions.
Thanks again to give us the opportunity to discover Vietnam by your own experience.
Alex
we just finished the whole loop few days ago and I would not recommend to take it at this time. the road from Mai Chau to Quan Hoa is a mess as well as the second part of the lao loop. the whole road 217 is under construction and it is real pain to get through on scooter. lot of mudd and stones so you cannot really enjoy the scenery. according to the signs the road should be finished in 2016 so it will be a great ride when it is done 😉
anyways,thank you for all your posts. very inspirative
Hi Petr,
Sorry to hear that. I was last there in September 2014 and it was OK. Thanks very much for your valuable update. I’m sure other travellers will benefit from this information. I look forward to 2016 when it is finished.
Tom
This is a great loop and a well thought out guide to it. Good to follow. Nice work.
Wow, it is indeed a nice place. I do love the whole thing. Thanks for sharing it.